Interview with Chuck Wepner

Chuck Wepner: The Bayonne Bleeder

By Dave Hollander

A TRUE CREDIT TO the fight game who deserves the the credit for Rocky tells why Sylvester Stallone owes him, who really killed Sonny Liston and how Muhammad Ali really spends all his money.



NYSX: Hey Chuck, thanks for letting me use the bathroom.

CHUCK: No problem. You didn't touch Linda's perfumes in there did you?

NYSX: What?

CHUCK: We caught the interviewer from Sports Illustrated using her perfumes.

NYSX: I guess that's why I don't write for them.

CHUCK: Yeah, he was using the expensive stuff.

LINDA: Actually he was using the Bengay. (They laugh.)

NYSX: Oh man.



NYSX: Some questions for you, Chuck. Everybody knows—or should know—that your heroic 15 round fight against Muhammad Ali in 1975 inspired Sylvester Stallone to make Rocky. He's always said that. Why won't he pay you?

CHUCK: What we're suing him for is for using my name "Chuck Wepner" to promote the Rocky franchise for the last 28 years. I have eight or nine videos of Stallone on national television—a couple of times with me—saying I was an inspiration, saying I turned his life around. The Rocky franchise to date has made one billion, three hundred million dollars with videos, toys, games, magazine and everything. He made me promises through the years and I just let it go. I'm in his videos. I'm in his DVDs. I'm in his games. So he is using my names constantly to make money and promote the movie. It's called the right of publicity law. They can't use your name without your written permission.



NYSX: Billons and millions. Why won't he let you wet your beak a little?

CHUCK: I just think he thinks that it's not a big deal, and I don't really care. And I really didn't until I got married to my third wife Linda. (loving gaze toward Linda.) And she said "Jeezuz, did you ever get any money?" I told people I have received 70,000 dollars, and a one percent because I was actually embarrassed about the fact that I never got a dime. And he never offered me a dime. But he did offer me parts in movies, which never came about.



NYSX: Yeah, you were supposed to be in Rocky II. What happened?

CHUCK: In Rocky II he wrote in 32 lines for a character called "Ching Webber." Chuck Wepner—Ching Webber. I was going to be Rocky's sparring partner and friend. But 19 days before final casting they called me up—he never even called me himself—the co-producers called me and said they deiced to cut out the part. I never claimed to be a great actor, but it would've been nice—small bit parts. I hold a SAG card. I've been in two movies. I've held a SAG card for 25 years. He never offered me anything. And it began to gnaw at me.



NYSX: I read recently that Russell Crowe will be playing the part of Gentleman Jim Braddock in a biopic. Has your lawyer looked into any legal precedent like did Scorsese pay La Motta for Raging Bull, did Rocky Marciano get anything for Somebody Up There Likes Me or did anyone pay Ruben "Hurricane" Carter for Hurricane?

CHUCK: We don't care about that—if anyone got paid. It's not like I want to be in a movie. I've had two speaking parts in movies by the way. I did all right, but I'm not a movie actor. If they were going to make a movie about me I'd prefer someone like James Gandolfini, or Danny Aiello for later in my life.



NYSX: Would you fight Stallone for the 15 million he owes you?

CHUCK: That'd be ridiculous. He doesn't know how to fight. This isn't the movies. I had 147 fights—never been knocked out. I was down one time ever—with Ali in 15 rounds. I fought for 21 years: All-Marine champion, National Golden Gloves Champion, National AAU, New Jersey Champion, North America and National America Champion. C'mon! I'm not suing him over anything like that. I don't want to cause any trouble for the guy. I just feel he owes me money.



NYSX: I think your real life story is much more interesting that the fictional Rocky. You were not some hard-luck dimwit. You lived the life! You sported the flashy clothes, the beautiful and exciting women, Playboy bunnies, models—

CHUCK: —My car's out in the back. It's a 2004 Cadillac. The plates say "Champ" with boxing gloves. I've had the plates for 27 years. This is my third wife. I've always been with beautiful women. I've always lived the good life. And as far as Rocky collecting on the docks? That was me. I told him that. C'mon, Stallone collecting? Where do think he got the idea. The guy who Rocky was collecting for was my guy John DiGulio, who was head of the docks at the time. They put two in his head and dumped in the Hackensack River. This is all stuff I gave Stallone. The line "Even if I don't win the fight I want to prove I belong in the ring." That was my line I gave to Stallone. Rocky fighting Hulk Hogan? That was me fighting Andre the Giant. I mean the guy took my whole life. I fought Andre the Giant in Shea Stadium the night Ali fought Anoki in Japan. They wanted Andre the Giant to body-slam me. I said "That fat fuck is 515 pounds! Are you out of your mind?" So I let him throw me out of the ring onto some people. That didn't hurt. Then Ali was supposed to come back to fight Andre and I was supposed to go to Japan and fight Anoki. I fought Anoki. But Ali and Andre never fought. Because Ali wanted to win and Andre was the "undefeated wrestling champ." It's show biz. I mean I went over there, Anoki got me in the boston crab in the fifth round and I hit the mat and made all the right noises. He asked me if I "give" and the third time I said "Okay, I give." That was it. You gotta see the pictures.



NYSX: You went 15 rounds with Ali in 1975, but you also knocked him down in the 9th round, not many can say that.

CHUCK: Well, I'm the only guy to have him down as world champion. He was down by Frazier and Cooper as a contender, I'm the only guy who dropped him as champion of the world. Matter fact I went back to the corner, I said to my manager, "Start the car we're going to the bank. We're millionaires!" He said, "You better turn around. He's getting' up and he looks pissed off." I said, "Oh shit." And he was too. Ali's manager was saying—(to Linda) who was his manager?

LINDA: What was his name?

NYSX: Angelo Dundee.

CHUCK: Angelo Dundee! (to Linda) Do me favor, go back in the kitchen. You're fired.

LINDA: How can I remember all this stuff. You don't even remember half the stuff!



NYSX: But Linda wasn't your wife then. Who did you give that negligee to the night before the Ali fight?

CHUCK: Oh, that was my second wife. I bought her a powder blue negligee and I gave it to her the night before the Ali fight. I said to her "Phyllis, I want you to wear this to bed tonight, because tonight you're gonna be sleeping with the heavyweight champion of the world." So I came back to hotel after the fight, and she's sitting on edge of the bed in the negligee, and she says "Do I go to his room or does he come to mine?" She had a pretty dry wit. In the meantime two of my girlfriends were at the fight sitting right beside my wife.

LINDA: (unimpressed) Yeah, they were.



NYSX: Every boxer has a nickname. Ernie Shavers was "the Acorn." You were the "Bayonne Bleeder." Did you like your nickname?

CHUCK: Not particularly, but you know what? It was voted third in the ten best boxing names of all time.



NYSX: Now that the PATH train runs to Bayonne, my friend and map fetishist Rob Tallia says Bayonne will become the next hipster paradise—

CHUCK: Oh, that's horseshit. This town? This town is so dead. I love this town, I lived here all my life. We got a good police force. Our politicians are good. Everything is good except it's not lively anymore. You can't have a lively jumping town and the quiet one too. We have almost thirty percent seniors in this town. They can walk the streets and feel safe. There are some tough towns nearby—Jersey City, West New York. It's not like Bayonne.



NYSX: You had some tough times yourself, going to prison for drug possession in 1986.

CHUCK: A guy called me up and says a friend of ours—is having a party. He needs some stuff—cocaine. So I say "Why don't you get it?" "Oh," he says, "I don't know the guy. I'll give you the money, you pick it up for me." I picked it up, I'm bringing it to him and the cops bust me. It was a sting operation. They ask, "Where'd you get it?" "Who did you buy if off of." I said, "Look, I don't do that. I did the crime, I'll do the time." They say, "We don't want to put you away. We want the people you got the stuff from." I said, "I can't do that." So they gave me 10 years. I did 38 months altogether inside and in the program. It's not fun, but if you're a tough guy nobody bothers you. If you're not a tough guy you're somebody's wife. That ain't gonna happen to me. I might be the husband, but I ain't gonna be the wife.

NYSX: Your fight with Sonny Liston in 1969 is famous for its brutality. I'm guessing that's where the name "Bayonne Bleeder" came from.

CHUCK: For five or six rounds I was in the fight. It was only my twelfth pro fight. I thought I take a shortcut to fame. I took a lot of shortcuts, by the way. Every time he hit with a punch the blood was spraying. Rosie Rosenberg from The Bayonne Times was ringside. He said Jesus, the guy's bleeding so much, they ought to call him the "Bayonne Bleeder." The name stuck. After the 6th rounds both my eyes were closed. I took 72 stitches. He broke my nose and my left cheek bone and my right ear drum. I mean the guy really pounded me.

NYSX: Wow.

CHUCK: Liston was very tough. It was the fight after he lost to Ali the second time, for the title. So he was in very bad mood. He was a mean guy anyway. I think I was the last guy to fight him. Three months after he fought me they shot him up with heroin in Las Vegas and killed him—knocked him off.

NYSX: Who knocked him off?

CHUCK: The mob. He was a leg breaker and collector for the mob, and he was skimming. You don't do that. The guy was definitely afraid of needles. He wouldn't take a needle and yet he shot himself up and overdosed? C'mon. It's like the JFK assassination. Everybody knows what really happened. They're still blaming it on some poor schmuck with a rifle.



NYSX: Vito Antuofermo has the record for stitches with 345. You're second with 326. Who keeps track of this?

CHUCK: They told me I had 326 in my eyes and they told me Vito had 345. I wanted to be number one. But my manager wouldn't let me fight again. I saw Vito last week at the Arturo Gatti fight. Matter of fact he was looking for a ride home. I said, "Vito you don't have a car?" He said, "Well I came down with friends and I lost them." I said, "Do you have a ticket to the fight?" He said, "Yeah I got a ticket. But I don't have ride home." So I put him in touch with a couple guys who go up where he lives. I hope he got a ride.



NYSX: We mentioned you knocked down Ali but you also knocked down George Foreman in the second round of a fight where he stopped you later in the fight round.

CHUCK: Yeah, they didn't call it a knockdown. I hit him with an overhand right in corner here (he points to the back of his head). It was a good punch. I hit him in the back of head, which is one of my patented punches by the way—the rabbit punch. I used to eat a stalk of carrots before every punch. Boy, I had that punch down pat. I really got blamed for that after the Ali fight because Ali was in the rope-a-dope like this (demonstrates on his face) and the only place you can hit Ali is to throw a round house and hit him here (demonstrates on my head). And sometimes when he ducked you hit him here (on my head again). Sometimes I did hit there—not on purpose. (Grinning). But we studied films on Ali. We saw what happened to Foreman in Zaire. Forman hit Ali for seven rounds, exhausted himself and got knocked out in the 8th round. I was planning on a long fight. I knew Ali had never been knocked out. I thought if possible I could wear him down, take him into the late rounds then knock him out. The first five or six rounds all he did was dance around yet they gave him three out the first 5 rounds. He's Muhammad Ali. You gotta knock him out. He was a great fighter. What people forget is no one ever knocked out Muhammad Ali. He was stopped by Larry Holmes in the sixth round. He'd only been down three times in all those fights. Nobody ever knocked him out. That's unfortunately why he is like he is today. He took a lot of punishment.



NYSX: Do you see Ali at all these days?

CHUCK: Yeah, I was with him not long ago. It's tough. He told me that wiping his ass is a problem. I said, "Muhammad, with all your money you should pay someone to do that." He said, "Where do think all my money goes?"



NYSX: How's your liquor distribution business?

CHUCK: It's very good.

NYSX: What's moving these days?

CHUCK: Vodka. It's huge.

Source: www.nysportsexpress.com

Chuck Wepner vs Andre the Giant

Wrestling legend Andre the Giant takes on Chuck Wepner in 1976. This is the opening bout on a card that ended with one of Muhammad Ali's sillier moments. See that here:

Chuck Wepner & Sly settle out of court

Copyright - The Associated Press
Source: ESPN.com



NEWARK, N.J. -- Chuck Wepner has ended his bid to get compensation from Sylvester Stallone for using him as the inspiration for his "Rocky" movies.

Lawyers for Wepner and Stallone filed notice in U.S. District Court last week that they have settled the 2003 lawsuit for undisclosed terms.

Wepner had maintained that although he was the inspiration for Stallone's Rocky Balboa character, the actor never made good on promises that he would get payment.

The former heavyweight boxer claimed Stallone improperly used his name to promote the "Rocky" films, while Stallone countered that Wepner had already benefited by making public appearances as "the real Rocky."

Stallone has said that he was working on a screenplay about a fighter when he watched Wepner nearly go the distance with heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali in 1975.

"What I saw was pretty extraordinary," Stallone said during a 2001 interview that became part of a "Rocky" anniversary DVD. "I saw a man they call 'the Bayonne Bleeder' who didn't have a chance at all against the greatest fighting machine supposedly that ever lived."

"Rocky," which won the Oscar for best picture in 1977, is the story of a down-and-out club fighter from Philadelphia who gets a long-shot chance at the heavyweight title. Stallone played Balboa, who trained at a meat-cutting plant and nearly dethroned the champ.

Stallone, 60, is now working on "Rocky Balboa," the sixth film in the franchise, which is set for release Dec. 22.

Wepner, now 67, was a New Jersey club fighter who got his nickname from the damage he was prone to receive even while winning.

He was plucked from obscurity by promoter Don King, who offered him a title shot against reigning heavyweight champion George Foreman. But when Ali defeated Foreman, Wepner got the match with Ali. He knocked Ali to the canvas in the ninth round before losing by technical knockout 19 seconds before the final bell.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press

Reel Life: Rocky

This is an interesting article that I read at www.talia-shire.com


By Jeff Merron

ESPN Page 2 :: 5/29/02

Rocky, which won an Oscar for Best Picture in 1976, has often been lauded for its gritty realism, both in and out of the ring. The movie showed Philadelphia at the depth of bleak decrepitude during the 1970s. It also displayed an ambitious fighter's harsh training and, from up close, the brutality of the sport.

But still, most of Rocky was pure invention. Which parts were real and which weren't? Read on . . .

In Reel Life: Rocky Balboa is a 30-year-old club fighter.

In Real Life: Sylvester Stallone was
Rocky Balboa
The character of "Rocky Balboa" was partially inspired by former heavyweight Chuck Wepner.
inspired by Chuck Wepner, a 35-year-old club fighter who also happened to be the No. 8-ranked heavyweight in the world. Stallone had watched on closed-circuit as Wepner, nicknamed the "Bayonne Bleeder," went 15 rounds in a title bout against Muhammad Ali on March 24, 1975, in Cleveland. Wepner was a heavy underdog, and his fight with Ali in Cleveland was considered such a mismatch that Wepner appeared on a Sports Illustrated cover with the headline "Boxing's Strange Encounter."

Mark Kram, who previewed the fight for SI, characterized the 6-foot-5, 220-pound Wepner as "a wide, long slab of heart and dreams who is one of the last club fighters, the kind who gives you what he has, who turns a ring into a red-wine sea and keeps coming on for more."

In Reel Life: Rocky's apartment looks awful - it's dark and small and grungy, and the only view is of a brick wall.

In Real Life: The apartment was a "real" flophouse in Los Angeles, and on their DVD commentaries both Talia Shire and Stallone comment on the setting. Stallone says that it really smelled terrible (which inspired his ad-libbed "It stinks in here" when he yells at Mickey later in the film). Shire says that there really were bugs on the floor. The brick wall was placed outside the window to obscure a palm tree.

In Reel Life: Rocky's friend, Paulie (played by Burt Young) is an angry loser, an overweight, balding, disheveled drunk who despises his fate - working in a meat locker.
Rocky and Adrian
Adrian stuck with Rocky despite the repugnent smell of his apartment.
In Real Life: In some ways, Young was the easiest actor to cast in the movie. Before becoming an actor, at 29, he was a boxer and carpet layer. In a 1986 People magazine profile of Young, Jack Kelley wrote, "Young attacks the heavy bag in his upstairs gym, displaying a sledgehammer power that suggests Stallone wouldn't last a round with him."

However, he wasn't nearly as large as Paulie - in his DVD commentary, he says he put on layers and layers of clothes. "I made him arthritic," Young adds. "Made a big, wide gait. Put turpentine on my hands so that they'd be tight to remind me I was arthritic. I don't like sweet drinks, so I'd put vermouth on my neck, so I'd feel disgusted."

In Reel Life: At night in Rocky's neighborhood, guys (including Frank Stallone Jr., Stallone's brother) stand around singing doo-wop.

In Real Life: Doo-wop, which is often sung a cappella (without instruments), sprang up in inner cities in the late-1940s and '50s - Philadelphia was a notable hotbed. It evolved from jazz and blues. "American Bandstand," a local TV show, starring Dick Clark, went national in 1957 and frequently featured doo-wop groups. Key elements are intricate harmonies and nonsense words ("doo-be-doo-be," "sh-boom, sh-boom") for rhythm. The first doo-wop song to make it big was "Earth Angel," by the Penguins, in 1954. Until the Beatles came along 10 years later, doo-wop music -- from superstar groups like the Four Seasons, Dion and the Belmonts, and the Five Satins -- was one of the dominant strains of rock 'n' roll.

In Reel Life: Rocky characterizes himself as dumb. "I think we make a real sharp coupla coconuts," he tells Adrian. "I'm dumb an' you're shy."

In Real Life: Stallone didn't do well in school, and when he was 16 he took a three-day battery of aptitude tests. "My mother was told, 'Your son is suited to run a sorting machine or to be an assistant electrician, primarily in the area of elevator operations,'" Stallone told Playboy in 1978. "I wound up feeling like an imbecile."

In Reel Life: Rocky works as a collector for a loan shark, Gazzo (Joe Spinell).

In Real Life: Spinell, who died from a heart attack at 52 in New York, made a career out of playing tough guys and bad guys, notably hit man Willie Cicci in The Godfather. According to his bio at the Internet Movie Database, "His best (or worst) or most disgusting role is probably the one (for which) he is best remembered; in a rare starring role, his character of Frank Zito in Maniac (1980) is a serial killer that kills women and uses their scalps to dress up female mannequins he keeps in his apartment." "Maniac," which was co-written by Spinell, is so disturbingly violent that it has been banned in the U.K. and Germany.

In Reel Life: During a scene while he's talking with Rocky, Gazzo pulls out an inhaler mid-sentence and uses it.

In Real Life: That wasn't written into the script. Spinell had asthma and really had to use the inhaler, and barely missed a beat while doing so, which is why it was left in the film.
Rocky's Victory
The scenes of Rocky running the streets of Philadelphia benefited from the new innovation known as Steadicam.
In Reel Life: Rocky trains by running through the streets of Philadelphia. He runs through abandoned lots next to bleak railroad yards, along the Schuylkill River, and through the Italian Market early in the morning. He also, famously, runs up the steps of the Philadelphia Art Museum.

In Real Life: Most of the exterior shots in Rocky were done on location in Philadelphia - primarily in South Philly. The running scenes and the Creed-Balboa bout benefited, cinematographically-speaking, from a new invention called the Steadicam, which kept the moving camera stable enough so that images would remain smooth. This was the first movie to be filmed with the Steadicam, and Garrett Brown, who worked the camera for Rocky, won a special Oscar for his invention in 1978.

In Rocky III, Balboa is honored by the city, which places an 8-foot-6 bronze statue atop the steps. Designed by Denver artist Thomas A. Schomberg, the statue became a matter of dispute in real life - Stallone offered it as a permanent contribution to the Philadelphia Museum of Art, but it turned him down. There was a huge public debate in Philadelphia as to the statue's fate -- one Philadelphia Daily News reader suggested: "Put it near the Liberty Bell." Another wrote, "Dump it in the Schuylkill." As part of a deal to premiere Rocky III in Philly, though, the city finally agreed to display the statue at the top of the steps for a few weeks, before moving it to a permanent home outside The Spectrum.

In Reel Life: Rocky can barely make it up the steps of the Art Museum when he begins training, but weeks later he's able to run up easily and celebrate at the top.

In Real Life: The two stair-running scenes were filmed within an hour of each other, the first (where Rocky struggles) just before dawn and the second shortly after.

In Reel Life: Rocky eats with Gazzo, who gives him $500 for training.

In Real Life: That scene was filmed in one of Philadelphia's most famous eateries, Pat's King of Steaks. If you want to pay a visit, it's at the intersection of 9th, Wharton and Passyunk Ave. near the Italian Market in South Philly.

Angelo Dundee, Ali's manager, who grew up in South Philly, says the scene at Pat's added to the film's realism. In 1977, Dundee told the Washington Post, "The credibility of the Rocky movie was perfect. You remember Pat's Steakhouse in the movie? I worked there - Pat Olivieri's - as a kid. I made sandwiches."

In Reel Life: Mickey tells Rocky he shouldn't fool around with Adrian (Talia Shire). "Women weaken legs!" he says.

In Real Life: It's a fact - legs of countless boys and men have wobbled around pretty women. But what Mickey's really saying is "don't have sex." It's lousy advice. As Casey Stengel and others have pointed out, it's the pursuit of sex that causes problems for athletes. There's no solid evidence that good old-fashioned intercourse has any impact on athletic performance.

In Reel Life: Adrian works in a pet shop.

In Real Life: The pet shop scenes were among the few interiors that were shot in Philadelphia (the rest were shot in Los Angeles.). It's a real pet store that's still around - J&M Tropical Fish. "Used to be these Rocky tours and limos would stop in front," Joseph Marks, the store's co-owner, told the Philadelphia Inquirer in 2001. "People still come here, from France, the Netherlands, California, Utah, they still want to see the pet shop where Rocky was filmed." If you're inclined to pay a visit, the shop is in Kensington at Front and Susquehanna. Bring your nose plug. "We were in some of the most bizarre locations," says Shire in her DVD commentary. "That pet shop was the most pungent, to say the least."

But don't bother looking for "Mighty Mick's Gym," the exterior of which was across the street from the pet shop. At the time of the filming, that was a vacant building, and the interior gym scenes were filmed in L.A.
Sylvester Stallone, Carl Weathers
Stallone and Weathers rehearsed for more than 35 hours to choreograph the fight scenes.
In Reel Life: Rocky develops a fondness for Butkus, a big bull mastiff in the pet shop.

In Real Life: Butkus was Sylvester Stallone's dog; Stallone took the 145-pound Butkus on the three-day train trip from L.A. to Philadelphia for the exterior filming of the film.

In Reel Life: Paulie flies into a rage, because Adrian won't go out with Rocky on Thanksgiving. She says she can't go out, because she has a turkey in the oven. Paulie responds by tossing the turkey out the back door, but he manages to hang on to a turkey leg to munch on.

In Real Life: In his DVD commentary, Young said the turkey scene caused some problems. "We had one turkey, only one turkey. There were two guys out there, catching the turkey. Each take, they'd re-spike the leg on it. That's why I didn't eat that much."

In Reel Life: Rocky and Adrian go ice skating on Thanksgiving. The rink is closed, but Rocky pays the ice rink attendant $10 for 10 minutes of ice time. Adrian skates, but Rocky walks and jogs around the rink in street shoes.

In Real Life: The filmmakers say that originally there were supposed to be 300 extras skating along with Rocky and Adrian, but they couldn't afford to pay the extras. So they rewrote the scene to explain why they'd be skating alone. Stallone didn't know how to skate (Shire couldn't skate too well either, obviously), which is why he's in street shoes.

In Reel Life: Rocky asks Mickey (Burgess Meredith) why he has given his locker to another fighter, Dipper. Mickey replies, "Dipper's a climber - you're a tomato."

In Real Life: Before the Ali bout, Wepner's manager, Al Braverman, explained the boxing hierarchy and where Wepner stood in it. The hierarchy: 1) name fighters; 2) club fighters, who "don't know how to box well but are in there fighting;" 3) tomato cans ("maybe box a little, punch a little"); 4) dogs (fighters without guts); 5) kyoodles ("a hound, a mutt, a pig even"). Wepner? "Maybe there's a lot of club in him, but he's much more. He's just pure mean."

Dundee told the Washington Post, "The gym scene was perfect. I liked the way they showed the attention given to the star of the gym, Big (sic) Dipper, the boxer they gave Rocky's locker. You don't take a boxer's locker away from him; that hurts."

In Reel Life: Apollo Creed (Carl Weathers) is world heavyweight champ, and he's scheduled a title bout for Jan. 1, 1976, in Philadelphia - a fight touted in a promotional poster as the "Bicentennial Super Battle." But five weeks before the bout, his opponent, Mac Lee Green, cancels because of a hand injury - a "severely cracked third metacarpal in his left hand." Other serious contenders are unavailable. "I've contacted all the ranked contenders, and they all say the same thing: five weeks isn't enough time to get into shape," says Jergens (Thayer David), the fight promoter, in one of the several scenes that take place in his office.
Carl Weathers
The confident Apollo Creed had a lot of Muhammad Ali in him.
Creed comes up with the idea of fighting an unknown, and says, "Apollo Creed, on January 1st, gives a local underdog fighter an opportunity. A snow-white underdog, and I'm gonna put his face on this poster with me."

In Real Life: Don King was the promoter of the Ali-Wepner fight, and, wrote Kram in SI, King said "that Ali is an equal-opportunity employer, and that it is about time a white man got a break. 'I am for the heavy-laden and downtrodden.' " But Wepner disputed the "underdog" hype. "Ali wanted to fight somebody white who was ranked. Well, I'm ranked No. 8, and I'm about as white as you can get. What's he going to do? Fight Jerry Quarry again?"

Jergens' office was actually the office of Rocky producer Irwin Winkler. When filming in the direction of the office windows, they put a fake Philadelphia skyline in the background.

Most boxers - including Rocky Graziano - agreed that five weeks wasn't nearly enough training time. "The training for such a big fight was too short in 'Rocky,' " Graziano told the Washington Post in 1977. "He came up too fast; I had 121 fights."

In Reel Life: Rocky is a lefty. He tells Adrian that he's a southpaw, and explains the term's etymology to her: "You know where southpaw comes from? I'll tell ya. A long time ago there was this guy, maybe a couple a hundred years ago, he was fighting around, I think it was around Philadelphia, and his arm - he was left-handed - and his arm was facing toward New Jersey, you see? And that's south. So then naturally they call him south paw. You see? South paw, south Jersey, South Camden, south paw. You know what I mean?"

In Real Life: Rocky's explanation includes a grain of truth. According to the "New Dickson's Baseball Dictionary," the term was coined in the late 1800s to describe left-handed pitchers, who, facing west in most ballparks, had their left arms hanging on the south side of the ballpark. A sportswriter, Harry Grayson, investigated this theory in 1951, and determined that most ballparks did, indeed, place home plate on the west side of the diamond, on the principle that this would keep the sun out of hitters' eyes during day games. The term has been applied to other sports, including boxing, and obviously came into general use. The term "northpaw" never caught on, though.

In Reel Life: When Mickey's trying to convince Rocky to let him be his manager, he says he almost had his shot, but he had the bad luck to fight his big fight on the wrong day. "You should have seen me when I knocked Guinea Russo out of the ring - out of the dammed ring. That's September the 14th, 1923, and it was the same night that Firpo knocks Dempsey out of the ring."

In Real Life: On Sept. 14, 1923, 82,000 fight fans jammed New York's Polo Grounds to watch heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey face off against Argentinean Luis Angel Firpo. Dempsey was a 3-1 favorite, but his manager, Doc Kearns, worried before the bout that the "big bum could get lucky."

Rocky Balboa
Stallone was a virtual unknown before "Rocky" hit theaters in 1976.
Dempsey pummeled Firpo, but somehow, in the midst of a brutal beating, Firpo managed to land a right with such force that it propelled Dempsey out of the ring head first. He fell into a group of reporters in the first row, and they helped him back into the ring. That was illegal, but the ref didn't stop the fight.

Dempsey, completely disoriented, managed to come out for Round 2. Within a minute he knocked Firpo down for the eighth and ninth times. The ninth time was a charm -- after that one, Firpo didn't get up.

After the fight, Firpo accused Dempsey of violating their pre-fight agreement to go to a neutral corner after a knockdown. And many speculated that without the help of the sportswriters during Round 1, Dempsey wouldn't have been able to get back into the ring before the end of the 10 count.

In Reel Life: All Creed seems to care about before the fight is promotion. He doesn't take Rocky seriously.

In Real Life: "I'm getting paid $1.5 million to fight this pug, and it's fool's gold," said Ali before the Wepner bout. "This sucker is a cinch."

In Reel Life: Rocky's pro record coming into the title bout is 44-20.

In Real Life: Wepner was undefeated in 65 amateur bouts, and had a 30-9-2 professional record going into the Ali fight.

In Reel Life: Creed comes out before the fight dressed up as George Washington. As he's carried out, he throws money to the crowd. The announcers say that he's throwing money just like Washington threw a dollar across the Delaware River.

In Real Life: Washington didn't throw a dollar across the Delaware. The "real" myth is that he threw a dollar-sized piece of slate across the Rappahannock River near Fredericksburg, Va. According to the official Mount Vernon website, there's no solid evidence that he tossed the slate, either. But "historians concede that the feat is possible. At the site of the Washington family homestead, the Rappahannock measures only 250 feet across, an impressive but not impossible throwing distance."

In Reel Life: The fight looks spontaneous.

In Real Life: Stallone and Carl Weathers, who played linebacker for the Oakland Raiders in 1970 and 1971, sparred for months before filming the fight. The fight was choreographed to look spontaneous, because Stallone thought that most boxing movies included scenes that looked staged. Stallone wrote out a punch-by-punch account, which the two actors followed. Weathers got the part after Ken Norton turned it down.

In Reel Life: Both boxers are bruised, battered, and bloody through almost the entire fight.

In Real Life: Most of that is the magic of makeup, but Stallone and Weathers did improvise a bit, and, wrote Stallone in "The Official Rocky Scrapbook," they were both in real pain during the day the fight was filmed, because of the damaged inflicted by the "Casanova" gloves they wore. Casanova gloves, explained Stallone, are illegal in the U.S., but the filmmakers used them "because of their sleek appearance."

In Reel Life: During the fight, Adrian doesn't watch - she stays in a waiting room. Toward the end of the match, she glimpses the action, but turns away.

In Real Life: Phyllis Wepner told SI that she couldn't watch her husband fight: "I'm there, but I won't watch the fights. I can tell you what kind of shoes everybody has on in my row, because that's where my eyes are while he's fighting."

In Reel Life: Rocky lands a lot of good punches, and knocks Creed down.

In Real Life: Wepner knocked Ali down in the ninth round with a wide right hand to the chest, in what some say was his only good punch of the fight. Later in the fight, Ali said, Wepner stepped on his foot and pushed him down, but the referee, Tony Perez, called it an official knockdown.

In Reel Life: Rocky says he wants to "go the distance" with Creed, meaning last through all 15 rounds. He succeeds in doing this.

In Real Life: Stallone expressed admiration for Wepner for "going the distance," but knew Wepner fell just short of the feat, with the ref calling a TKO with 19 seconds left in the 15th round. Wepner had been pounded by Ali, but was praised by the champ. "There's not another human being in the world that can go 15 rounds like that," said Ali after the fight. According to the AP's account, "For 14 rounds, and most of the 15th, the big, awkward, barroom brawler from New Jersey stood toe to toe with the world titleholder, taking Ali's best shots without buckling."

Stallone told Playboy that he watched the Ali-Wepner fight at the Wiltern Theater in LA: "I'm sitting there, looking around at the audience, and a drama is unfolding. Wepner is a trial horse who's supposed to last maybe three rounds, so Ali can go to the showers early, but he's hanging in there. And then, all of a sudden, Ali falls down - he tripped - but now the place is going crazy! Guys' eyes are turning up white; I mean, the crowd is going nuts. And here comes the last round, and Wepner finally loses on a TKO. I said to myself, 'That's drama. Now the only thing I've got to do is get a character to that point and I've got my story.' "

In Reel Life: Before the 15th round, Rocky's swollen right eye is sliced open so that he can see. This procedure is done by his "cut man," Al Salvani, who was introduced earlier in the film.

In Real Life: Al Salvani (also known by the alternative spelling Silvani) trained Floyd Patterson and Rocky Graziano, was Frank Sinatra's bodyguard, and made a mini-career as an advisor, assistant director. and sometime-actor in boxing films. He helped train Elvis Presley for the 1962 movie Kid Galahad, taught Barbra Streisand how to box on the set of Funny Girl (there was no boxing in that film - the lessons were just for fun), was a technical advisor for Raging Bull, and appeared as a referee in the 1981 O.J. Simpson TV movie Goldie and the Boxer Go to Hollywood. He also appeared in Rocky II and Rocky III.

In Reel Life: The fight goes 15 rounds.

In Real Life: The fight was filmed in one day, with Weathers and Stallone going backward - they started with Round 15, and the last round shot was Round 1. The biggest practical reason for this was makeup; both actors were heavily made up to look crushed at the end of the fight, and as filming progressed, makeup came off.

In Reel Life: Rocky is proud of himself for going the distance, and the movie ends as he and Adrian hug.

In Real Life: Stallone wrote the first draft of Rocky in three or four days of caffeine-induced frenzy. Originally, the plot was very different from the final version - for example, Mickey was a nasty racist who shouted things, said Stallone, like, "Kill him! I want you to kill him! Beat him to death!" in the Creed fight, Adrian was a Bette Midler type, and Apollo Creed, in one early rewrite, was Jamaican. There was a great deal of profanity, and Rocky ended up throwing the fight against Creed. With his loser's share, he bought a pet shop for himself and Adrian.

Drago Interview - Vintage Stuff!

This is an interview of Dolph Lungdren, who plays the role of the mighty Drago in the fourth sequel of the highly succesful movie Rocky! This interview was taken in 1984, the year in which the movie was released.